American Founding Fathers

[RedOctober]

kbdflash Wrote:If the majority of the founding fathers where non believers then why is "In God we trust" printed on our money?

I find that hypocritical. Any thoughts?

Two parts to your question. First the phrase "In God We Trust" was not officially imprinted untill the 1950's, due to McCarthism if I remember (about the same time "under God" was added to the plegeof allegiance).

As for non-believers....hold your horses, they did believe in God....just not the Protestant, Catholic, etc. version. Here are a few more quotes:

Quote:The clergy converted the simple teachings of Jesus into an engine for enslaving mankind and adulterated by artificial constructions into a contrivance to filch wealth and power to themselves...these clergy, in fact, constitute the real Anti-Christ - Thomas Jefferson

...Rogueries, absurdities and untruths were perpetrated upon the teachings of Jesus by a large band of dupes and importers led by Paul, the first great corrupter of the teaching of Jesus. - Thomas Jefferson

I would not dare to so dishonor my Creator God by attaching His name to that book (the Bible). - Thomas Paine

So you see, they did believe in God, but rejected the Bible or portions of it. I don't know how many of you have taken to study the history and origons of the Bible, Catholicism, Protestantism, etc., but if you did, you would understand why they held these views.

[RedOctober]

Did a quick search and found this interesting article.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/6418/diests.html

[RedOctober]

Thought I'd move this over here. The myth that the USA is a "Christian Nation" seems to be going full steam on the propoganda machine.

[IV]

(07-06-2010 01:30 PM)RedOctober Wrote:  Thought I'd move this over here. The myth that the USA is a "Christian Nation" seems to be going full steam on the propoganda machine.

I think it's important how other countries view the US. With all the current pushes to make the Muslim people more at peace with us, I wonder if the US will cave to them just as the UK did with allowing Sharia Law to take over. Now, the UK seems to have lost some of it's ability to remain a sovereign nation because it now caters to the feelings and emotions of another culture, not unlike how we cater to illegal aliens here in the US.

Check out this story.

Nasa's Push To Make Muslim's Feel More Welcome

[KPN]

(07-06-2010 01:30 PM)RedOctober Wrote:  Thought I'd move this over here. The myth that the USA is a "Christian Nation" seems to be going full steam on the propoganda machine.

Red,
I read the quotes you posted about some of the founding fathers and their lack of faith in Biblical Christianity.

Did you get a chance to read some of the quotes I posted that portray most of the "founding fathers" as Christians?

I used to think, until recently, that the founding fathers were all "secular".
But after reading some of their own words, I have changed my mind.

Any thoughts on these?

Here are some of the quotes -





Oliver Wolcott
(SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; MILITARY GENERAL; GOVERNOR OF CONNECTICUT)

Through various scenes of life, God has sustained me. May He ever be my unfailing friend; may His love cherish my soul; may my heart with gratitude acknowledge His goodness; and may my desires be to Him and to the remembrance of His name….May we then turn our eyes to the bright objects above, and may God give us strength to travel the upward road...It is most evident that this land is under the protection of the Almighty, and that we shall be saved not by our wisdom nor by our might, but by the Lord of Host Who is wonderful in counsel and Almighty in all His operations












John Witherspoon
(SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; PRESIDENT OF PRINCETON)

No man, whatever be his character or whatever be his hope, shall enter into rest unless he be reconciled to God though Jesus Christ.

There is no salvation in any other than in Jesus Christ of Nazareth.










George Washington
(JUDGE; MEMBER OF THE CONTINENTAL CONGRESS; COMMANDER-IN-CHIEF OF THE CONTINENTAL ARMY; PRESIDENT OF THE CONSTITUTIONAL CONVENTION; FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES; “FATHER OF HIS COUNTRY”)

You do well to wish to learn our arts and ways of life, and above all, the religion of Jesus Christ. These will make you a greater and happier people than you are.

While we are zealously performing the duties of good citizens and soldiers, we certainly ought not to be inattentive to the higher duties of religion. To the distinguished character of Patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished character of Christian.

The blessing and protection of Heaven are at all times necessary but especially so in times of public distress and danger. The General hopes and trusts that every officer and man will endeavor to live and act as becomes a Christian soldier, defending the dearest rights and liberties of his country.

I now make it my earnest prayer that God would… most graciously be pleased to dispose us all to do justice, to love mercy, and to demean ourselves with that charity, humility, and pacific temper of the mind which were the characteristics of the Divine Author of our blessed religion.












Benjamin Rush
(SIGNER OF THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE; SURGEON GENERAL OF THE CONTINENTAL ARMY; RATIFIER OF THE U. S. CONSTITUTION; “FATHER OF AMERICAN MEDICINE”; TREASURER OF THE U. S. MINT; “FATHER OF PUBLIC SCHOOLS UNDER THE CONSTITUTION”)

The Gospel of Jesus Christ prescribes the wisest rules for just conduct in every situation of life. Happy they who are enabled to obey them in all situations! . . . My only hope of salvation is in the infinite transcendent love of God manifested to the world by the death of His Son upon the Cross. Nothing but His blood will wash away my sins [Acts 22:16]. I rely exclusively upon it. Come, Lord Jesus! Come quickly! [Revelation 22:20]

I do not believe that the Constitution was the offspring of inspiration, but I am as satisfied that it is as much the work of a Divine Providence as any of the miracles recorded in the Old and New Testament.

[Daniel M B]

Of the little that I remember of American history and the settlements, it was like Australia, only a hundred years earlier.

The British sent the "trouble makers" away to far lands to work.

Most of them were convicts, killers, thieves etc.

Some of those were "religious nuts" that went against the Kings church.

And that was the makings of the early Baptist churches that spread in the mid-west.

As far as being a "Christian" nation,.......

They are the loudest, so on that, it only seems that way.

Red, I think you found a survey about religious beliefs in the US (awhile back) and from memory, most of the population didn't hold to any belief (?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, doesn't the majority have to believe a certain way to make it a "nation" ?

[RedOctober]

KPN,

Oh I agree, many (but not all) of the signers of the Constitution were indeed Christian, what I object to is the claim they were ALL Christian, when its plainly obvious they weren't. However, just because a majority were "Christian" is not proof that they founded a "Christian Nation". Heck, all of the European countries at that time claimed to be a "Christian Nation". You will even have some of the signers interpret the Constitution to have Christian "values"....however, the document itself is the most telling.

No where on the U.S. Constitution is the word "God" found let alone interpreted. Next, the European Governments all stated that their authority came and derived from God, whereas the preamble to the Constitution states rather explicitly that the governments authority comes from the people....A radical and almost heretical claim at the time. And of course the first amendment states "....Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof...." Long story short, the government has no authority over religion and no religion has authority over the government. One thing you have to remember, this wasn't 21'st century America, this was 18th century America and the various protestant religions of the time tended to be rather critical of each other. Having a particular government sanctioned religion is stating its supremacy...that would have caused a whole slew of new problems, hence, no religion was sanctioned. And much to the dismay of perhaps some on .net.....thus protecting everyone's right to believe as they so choose.

Now one can claim "God" is invoked on the Declaration of Independence.....and it indeed is, but nowhere is God defined....and even if it were, the Declaration is NOT ratified law anywhere.

The there is the most blatant, obvious and well defined position of the US Government and its position on religion. From the Treat of Tripoli, Article 11:

Quote:As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,—as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,—and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_T...Article_11

It doesn't get more plain than that. And that was ratified in Congress and published to the general public....and there was NO outcry.

But for arguments sake, lets just take the myth "The USA is a Christian Nation" to conclusion. If that were true, then the Federal Government has full right to regulate and standardize all religions in its territory that claim to be "Christian". Why? Because they are no longer a religion and part of the government....and thus the first amendment does not apply. As they say be careful of what you asked for....