Fact vs. Myth

[RedOctober]

(02-04-2011 05:49 PM)90606 Wrote:  I don't trust you, why should God reward you with understanding? Until you accept "The Father and I are one" I don't think anyone can help you.

Did I ask for your trust? No. Do I want your trust? No. If your going to trust...then trust in the Lord. But don't you find it odd that you insist reading the Bible in a manner that is not trusting of the Lord and instead allow a council whose "fruits" were anything but holy to determine your beliefs, faith and so on? You'll put your trust into council edicts, but scared to drop them and trust God into leading you to understanding. Why? Just because the majority of history (written by the theological victors), commentary, etc. have dominated the scene?

[Guest]

(02-08-2011 10:00 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  

(02-04-2011 05:49 PM)90606 Wrote:  I don't trust you, why should God reward you with understanding? Until you accept "The Father and I are one" I don't think anyone can help you.

Did I ask for your trust? No. Do I want your trust? No. If your going to trust...then trust in the Lord. But don't you find it odd that you insist reading the Bible in a manner that is not trusting of the Lord and instead allow a council whose "fruits" were anything but holy to determine your beliefs, faith and so on? You'll put your trust into council edicts, but scared to drop them and trust God into leading you to understanding. Why? Just because the majority of history (written by the theological victors), commentary, etc. have dominated the scene?

(01-30-2011 11:57 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  ....its you who has a problem with the Bible...not me.

(01-31-2011 12:42 PM)RedOctober Wrote:  I have no issues with the Bible and use it extensively...I only have issues with false doctrines propagated by the twisting and torturing of scripture..

I am understanding that you don't believe Jesus has the power and authority equal to God, all things were created through Jesus, for Jesus and by Jesus, Jesus judges all things and you said in another post you have no issues with the bible.

[Guest]

Matthew 11:25 Then Jesus prayed this prayer: "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise and clever, and for revealing it to the childlike. 26 Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way! 27 "My Father has given me authority over everything. No one really knows the Son except the Father, and no one really knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
NLT

Phl 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. NIV

2 Cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. NIV

[RedOctober]

(02-08-2011 09:17 PM)Guest Wrote:  I am understanding that you don't believe Jesus has the power and authority equal to God, all things were created through Jesus, for Jesus and by Jesus, Jesus judges all things and you said in another post you have no issues with the bible.

Misrepresentation...classic attack by supporters of the Trinity Doctrine and anti-Molokans;

1 Colossians 1

[15] He is the image of the invisible God, the first-born of all creation;

[16] for in him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or authorities -- all things were created through him and for him.

Everything was created through him....nothing in there about "by him". Thats your assertion.

Furthermore, I stated the Son is not co-equal to the father. But your statement of does show something interesting....your confused in regard to God.

[22] The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son,
[23] that all may honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.

The Son was "given" authority....that does not mean equal furthermore, you still ignore scripture, John 5:30

30] "I can do nothing on my own authority; as I hear, I judge; and my judgment is just, because I seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me.

The Son will judge by his Fathers will....not his own. Once again proving no co-equality.

[RedOctober]

Quote:Matthew 11:25 Then Jesus prayed this prayer: "O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise and clever, and for revealing it to the childlike. 26 Yes, Father, it pleased you to do it this way! 27 "My Father has given me authority over everything. No one really knows the Son except the Father, and no one really knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."
NLT

Amen to that! But tell me, why did you miss this:

"O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, thank you for hiding the truth from those who think themselves so wise and clever, and for revealing it to the childlike. "

The Trinity Doctrine appeals to the high minded, elite, seminary educated, etc. In other words, those who think they are wise and clever...such as the person in the youtube link. Furthermore, the truth is revealed to the childlike, so tell me, when does a child ever think he is co-equal to his parent? Does a child set his own rules about bed time, when to eat, how to behave?

Quote:Phl 2:5-6 Your attitude should be the same that Christ Jesus had. 6 Though he was God, he did not demand and cling to his rights as God. NIV

2 Cor 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. NIV

Ok, you just took two verses and showed how the contradict. Was Christ God or the image of God? Can't be both.

And again....nothing there about the Son being co-equal to the Father. Plus you ignore the following verses, why wold Christ have to be exalted if he is co-equal? And you continue to ignore all other Bible verses, why would Christ judge according the the will of the Father if he was co-equal? Why would Christ explicitly state the Father is greater and implicate so both in heaven and on earth. You response to it was dismissal with nothing to back it up.

Since your so keen on this particular verse in Philippians and ignoring everything else in the Bible...maybe you should read a study about it:

http://bible.org/article/meaning-harpagm...in-godhead

Oh and by he way....you didn't use NIV version for Philippians...you used the NLT...which is very interesting because you stated earlier:

Quote:First and most important to me is, I believe the Holy Bible is the inerrant word of God, when I say Holy Bible, I'm not talking about modern day translations that have been filtered through the minds of comities who MAY have been influenced by publishing company profit margins.

So, in short I'm saying take as many mortals out of the process that is possible, and I choose to believe what best agrees with the majority of relevant scripture found in the Interlinear Bible which I review when prompted by the Holy Spirit. …….

The NLT Bible...from wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Living_Translation

Quote:The New Living Translation used translators from a variety of denominations.

Quote:It has been suggested that this "thought-for-thought" methodology, while making the translation easier to understand, is less accurate than a literal (formal equivalence) method, and thus the New Living Translation may not be suitable for those wishing to undertake detailed study of the Bible.

Quote:Some phrases are translated into contemporary English; eg "they beat their breasts" (Luke 23:48) is translated as "They went home in deep sorrow" with again footnotes providing more literal interpreations.

Quote:Gender-inclusive language is used where appropriate, thus ἀδελφοί (adelphoi) is translated "brothers and sisters".

Quote:In 2010 the NLT held 4th place in Bible sales based upon dollar sales and 5th place based on unit sales according to the Christian Booksellers Association.[3] In July, 2008, the NLT gained the #1 spot in unit sales, unseating the NIV for the first time in over two decades.

[Guest]

(02-09-2011 10:52 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  Ok, you just took two verses and showed how the contradict. Was Christ God or the image of God? Can't be both.

And again....nothing there about the Son being co-equal to the Father. Plus you ignore the following verses, why wold Christ have to be exalted if he is co-equal?

Colossians 2:6-10 As you therefore have received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in Him,
7 rooted and built up in Him and established in the faith, as you have been taught, abounding in it with thanksgiving.
8 Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ.
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
10 and you are complete in Him, who is the head of all principality and power.


Rest of post is un-approved. Note: Its plainly obvious you really don't have any comprehension in regards to the S&L.

[RedOctober]

And of course...which is typical of supporters of the Trinity Doctrine...you stop short. Read only the verses that support it...not challenge it, because someone told you it was wrong to do so and threatened your salvation. You do know that no one will ever answer for you and stating "ABC told you to believe this way" is not acceptable? Adam and Eve both learned that the hard way when they chose to blame the serpent rather than accept responsibility. But on to the verses:

[11] In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of flesh in the circumcision of Christ;
[12] and you were buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the working of God, who raised him from the dead.
[13] And you, who were dead in trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,