Russian, English or both?

[Daniel M B]

I received, in the mail, the Reformed Church English song book.
Plus CDs of their singing. They changed the words to suit their
Christian beliefs.

In their letter, they say that they conduct their services in English.

Has any body else received this stuff or am I the only LUCKY one?

YES? What do you think?

Personally I don't mind having English spoken during "besedi",
but to pray and sing, is another matter!

Any body have any thoughts?

[RedOctober]

Considering the Reformed Church has since renamed themselves and from my understanding its just a small hand full now...I'm guessing someone from .net is trying to...ahem.... "convince" you.

[mud]

I've heard of a reformed church starting somewhere... any other info about it? Is it down here or in Fresno? I'm so curious about it... I'd love to get a packet and check it all out... what words they change, etc...

Not that I'd be attending, but I'd probably go check it out.

I'm a huge advocate for the Russian language, it's my children's first language, so I'm totally for attending a Russian speaking church. But it would be interesting to hear how they do things in English. Do they still follow the Molokan 'obrad'? Do they still stand the same, have the same positions, pray the same prayers?

[Daniel M B]

(04-12-2010 12:53 PM)mud Wrote:  I've heard of a reformed church starting somewhere... any other info about it? Is it down here or in Fresno? I'm so curious about it... I'd love to get a packet and check it all out... what words they change, etc...

Not that I'd be attending, but I'd probably go check it out.

I'm a huge advocate for the Russian language, it's my children's first language, so I'm totally for attending a Russian speaking church. But it would be interesting to hear how they do things in English. Do they still follow the Molokan 'obrad'? Do they still stand the same, have the same positions, pray the same prayers?

I'm trying to find out as well, should be interesting!

[d]

The molokan reformed church is in Woodburn Oregon. Actually it is on page 167 of the 2004 molokan directory. They do the old molokan obryat, which is what the basic molokan sunday morning church is in the rest of the churches. Sitting at benches for sizhma then standing for prayer and singing.
Also they do the 'old obryat' for their funerals, etc.. Which is just a different set of songs and prayers; more scripture.

Their setup is pretty much the same as the rest of the molokan churches, with three exceptions:
1) No 'Book of the Sun'. The only spirit and life they have are the words of Jesus Christ. (John 6:63)
2) No restrictions on language, they allow russian and english; in prayers, speeches and songs. Mostly all molokan songs with the same tunes sung in english.
3) No bloodline restrictions on who is allowed to attend.

For more detailed info see page 167 of the 2004 molokan directory and call the Minister. I assume it is also in the 2008 directory, It is called the Christian Molokan Church of Woodburn.

[RedOctober]

(04-14-2010 11:28 AM)d Wrote:  Also they do the 'old obryat' for their funerals, etc.. Which is just a different set of songs and prayers; more scripture.

That is, if anyone isn't sure....excludes "Blaghee Tvoresz" which is sung and read day of the funeral (from MGR). And I'm presuming it excludes praying "Ghospod Pasti Moi" according to E.G.K. And if memory serves me correctly, a few more songs(?).

Going to give credit where credit is due. At least they separated and formed a church more to their beliefs and stuck to it. Rather than abandon it and join a Protestant religion (as many did later after the reformed church was formed)....or show up to plainly obvious Priguni churches and then jump online and moan and complain about everything (yeah, they have credibility...in a pigs eye).

[Daniel M B]

(04-16-2010 07:07 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  

(04-14-2010 11:28 AM)d Wrote:  Also they do the 'old obryat' for their funerals, etc.. Which is just a different set of songs and prayers; more scripture.

That is, if anyone isn't sure....excludes "Blaghee Tvoresz" which is sung and read day of the funeral (from MGR). And I'm presuming it excludes praying "Ghospod Pasti Moi" according to E.G.K. And if memory serves me correctly, a few more songs(?).

Going to give credit where credit is due. At least they separated and formed a church more to their beliefs and stuck to it. Rather than abandon it and join a Protestant religion (as many did later after the reformed church was formed)....or show up to plainly obvious Priguni churches and then jump online and moan and complain about everything (yeah, they have credibility...in a pigs eye).

I agree Red,
Those not happy with the way their church is run, GO and make your own group.
SEE if you can do it better!
Those that have time over the week end, read DE 70 & 71. (S&L pg 149)
See what group you fit into (?)

[Guest]

(04-16-2010 01:47 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  

(04-16-2010 07:07 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  

(04-14-2010 11:28 AM)d Wrote:  Also they do the 'old obryat' for their funerals, etc.. Which is just a different set of songs and prayers; more scripture.

That is, if anyone isn't sure....excludes "Blaghee Tvoresz" which is sung and read day of the funeral (from MGR). And I'm presuming it excludes praying "Ghospod Pasti Moi" according to E.G.K. And if memory serves me correctly, a few more songs(?).

Going to give credit where credit is due. At least they separated and formed a church more to their beliefs and stuck to it. Rather than abandon it and join a Protestant religion (as many did later after the reformed church was formed)....or show up to plainly obvious Priguni churches and then jump online and moan and complain about everything (yeah, they have credibility...in a pigs eye).

I agree Red,
Those not happy with the way their church is run, GO and make your own group.
SEE if you can do it better!
Those that have time over the week end, read DE 70 & 71. (S&L pg 149)
See what group you fit into (?)

Isn't it happening now and has happened constantly throughtout the years with people getting their feelings hurt and forming their own church........it is happening alot in Australia right now and has happend in Fresno quite often......you hardcore Maximists are so confused calling yourself christians and yet denying the basic tenets of christianity.....you guys, the Mormons, the jehova witnesss all pretty much believe the same and happen to follow a man in the same format.All I could say is God will judge and your time will come.

[Guest]

I would be curious as to what words they changed.

Quote:='Daniel M B'
I received, in the mail, the Reformed Church English song book.
Plus CDs of their singing. They changed the words to suit their
Christian beliefs.

[RedOctober]

Quote:Isn't it happening now and has happened constantly throughtout the years with people getting their feelings hurt and forming their own church........it is happening alot in Australia right now and has happend in Fresno quite often......

Happening now? No more than it usually happens and has happened in the past. Why does it bother you? Have you not read...

[35] And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you do with these men.
[36] For before these days Theu'das arose, giving himself out to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him; but he was slain and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
[37] After him Judas the Galilean arose in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him; he also perished, and all who followed him were scattered.
[38] So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail;
[39] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"

If its God's will they will succeed, if not they will fail. Unless of course you are just dramatizing and posturing to place yourself on a pedestal of how "holy" you are. That or you don't trust God to handle it.

Quote:you hardcore Maximists are so confused calling yourself christians and yet denying the basic tenets of christianity.....you guys, the Mormons, the jehova witnesss all pretty much believe the same and happen to follow a man in the same format.

Christian tenants? Which ones? Do you mean the ones from...

-The politically charged and forced Ecumenical Councils? Making those tenants law and persecuting anyone and everyone that disagreed?

-The ones from the Dark Ages?

-The ones from the Inquisitions?

-The ones from Crusades where horrible atrocities such as genocide were committed? (Makes you wonder why they keep events named such as "Harvest Crusade").

-The ones from the Middle Ages where the Earth was the center of the universe and was flat.

-The ones from the Protestant Reformation where each splinter group called the other false and part of the Anti-Christ and engaged in things such as witch hunts.

-The ones from European Colonialism where slavery, war, etc. was the norm and done in the name of God....if fact, there was even a prose that said.... "When the Christians came, we had the land and they had the Bible. They said let us close our eyes and pray to Jesus. So we closed our eyes and prayed to Jesus. When we opened them, we had the Bible and they had the land."

-Or do you mean from the present modern day era where in some places the word Christian is synonymous with oppressor. And where in the USA the evangelical groups have admitted and out right stated they want make this a "Christian Nation" thus unifying Church and State....just like it was during the Tsar, European Monarchies, Rome, etc. And of course, persecutions against unapproved "tenants" were rampant. Lets be honest, that is what you really want. Force us and everyone else into your way of thinking and belief by any means necessary, where it be by convincing, coercion, promises of wealth or if necessary...force.

-Or do you mean the common Christian tenant that is common in all of this and its history....blood on your hands.

Quote:All I could say is God will judge and your time will come.

And some of your compatriots have called us judgmental.....