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[RedOctober]

Quote:I just want to have fellowship in the name of Jesus Christ with as little "religion" as possible.
There is a difference between religion and tradition.
I like tradition.
I like a little bit of religion.
But neither one of those should ever take priority over a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

So begs the question, why force your style or worship upon people who are not interested or don't want it?

Don't assume everyone is ignorant and have no idea why they do what they do. To make such a bold proclamation would be rather naive.

[KPN]

(05-18-2010 08:02 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  

Quote:I just want to have fellowship in the name of Jesus Christ with as little "religion" as possible.
There is a difference between religion and tradition.
I like tradition.
I like a little bit of religion.
But neither one of those should ever take priority over a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

So begs the question, why force your style or worship upon people who are not interested or don't want it?

Don't assume everyone is ignorant and have no idea why they do what they do. To make such a bold proclamation would be rather naive.

I am not trying to force anything on anybody.
Does it sound like that is what I am doing?

I just feel that maybe, just maybe, those who do not have common ground in regards with the s&l and the race issue can break away from the prigun, thus creating a little peace for both groups.

And again, at this point, it is only a discussion.
No one is pushing anything.
Let God's will be done, not mine.

[KPN]

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Jesus is nice, but-
How would you envision the services to be?

Honestly, I have not put much thought into the details.
People are more important than things.
And I would categorize the way (form) of worship as a secondary issue.

God and His truth would be the focus, and loving each other in the name of Jesus.
Beyond that, what else matters?

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Would it be same as the molokan? Postayiani do it the same way(?).

You mean postayan molokan?
I guess maybe to start off...I really don't know.
It seems like you are more worried about it than me.

Do you have any ideas?

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Would you call it a "Molokan" group? No? What would you call it?

The name is not important.
But, maybe the city or street of the location of the church would be appropriate.

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Would it be main stream? With pews or rows of seats?

Pews, benches...
Sit where you want.
If everybody wants to sit molokan style, ok, cool.
If everybody wants to sit with their families in pews, ok, cool.

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Who would be your pastor? (Someone has to head the services, I can see a problem there already)

I don't know.
What problem do you already see?

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  What about a place to gather? A few can go house to house, but what if there was a rush of people wanting to come?

A permanent building is my personal preference.
This way, you don't have to call around to find out where church is at.
And if you are a guest, you know where to go if you want to go to church.

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Are you popular enough (let's leave God out of it for the moment) to go get a building, set up church (assuming that you were going to fund it), and be confident that "they will come"?

No, I am not popular enough.
No, I don't know if anybody "will come".
No, I am not confident enough.

I do not feel God has called me to be a pastor or to be a leader of a church. I feel God has called me to help men who are struggling with the kind of issues men face. Especially the issues that are too difficult to bring up to his wife or church.
But, in saying this, one of the first things I tell men to do (besides to call on the Lord for His strength), is to get honest with his preacher (pastor) and his wife.
Church discipline is lacking in all of the american Christian churches, including the molokan church.

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  These are all serious questions that have to be addressed even before you open the Bible to start "fellowship".

I don't agree, but I could be wrong.

(05-14-2010 03:08 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Anyway if this is the path you feel you have to take, like Red said "good luck"

I don't feel this is the path I have to take.
I don't know if this is the path I have to take.
But, ok, thanks for the "dobra shzelania".

[RedOctober]

KPN,

Sounds if your not quite sure what you want given the circumstances:

1. You would prefer a church minus the S&L, similar to Postyanni, etc.

2. You fully realize, you are in the minority and most Molokans DO NOT want to go that route. And unlike some on .net don't believe it should be forced upon everyone else.

3. Fully aware of what it would take to break away and not so sure if your up to that task.

4. And this one I'm not sure....but are also aware of the huge problems the current mainstream Protestant churches face?

And given all that....are at a conundrum.

[KPN]

(05-21-2010 08:39 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  KPN,
1. You would prefer a church minus the S&L, similar to Postyanni, etc.

Yes.

Does anybody know if Persian church has the s&l on the table?
In our three year stay in L.A., we never visited that church.

(05-21-2010 08:39 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  2. You fully realize, you are in the minority and most Molokans DO NOT want to go that route. And unlike some on .net don't believe it should be forced upon everyone else.

It may be the minority, but we will never know until we try.

I never want to force or push anybody into anything.
All we are as Christians are arrows that point to our loving savior, Jesus.

He causes people to change, not me.

(05-21-2010 08:39 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  3. Fully aware of what it would take to break away and not so sure if your up to that task.

Yes, it would be difficult to break away completely.
I am trying to find a way for families to still have some connection with their prigun friends and family while at the same time attending a bible only church.

It does seem like an impossible task.
I could be just dreaming.
But wouldn't it be better for those who do not adhere to the s&l to stop "cursing the darkness", and become a "light in the darkness"?
If the anti-s&l remain in the prigun church, their attendance significantly declines, and their is tension at church.
But if the anti-s&l person leaves and gathers with like minded individuals, the tension lessons, and he can now focus on advancing and preaching the good news of Jesus Christ.
We are called first and foremost to make disciples of Jesus Christ.

(05-21-2010 08:39 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  4. And this one I'm not sure....but are also aware of the huge problems the current mainstream Protestant churches face?

Yes, I know much of the problems with American Christianity.
I have little hope for the American evangelical church.
Maybe you can open a new topic on this and we could discuss in more detail...

I do however know of some genuine bible teaching, preaching, believing churches out there.

[RedOctober]

Quote:Does anybody know if Persian church has the s&l on the table?

Yes they do. However, there are a number who reject portions of it. I know some even have an S&L that only included DY and EGK.

Quote:In our three year stay in L.A., we never visited that church.

Wow...that long?

Quote:It does seem like an impossible task.
I could be just dreaming.
But wouldn't it be better for those who do not adhere to the s&l to stop "cursing the darkness", and become a "light in the darkness"?
If the anti-s&l remain in the prigun church, their attendance significantly declines, and their is tension at church.
But if the anti-s&l person leaves and gathers with like minded individuals, the tension lessons, and he can now focus on advancing and preaching the good news of Jesus Christ.

Heh...all I could think of was "then they would have nothing to be bitter about, I don't think they want that". But I do agree, I would be preferable if those that were anti-S&L would congregate amongst themselves rather than show up and think and whisper how "wrong things are" and then have some unreal expectation that the whole Molokan nation needs to some how enmasse convert into a religion of their liking.

Quote:Yes, I know much of the problems with American Christianity.
I have little hope for the American evangelical church.
Maybe you can open a new topic on this and we could discuss in more detail...

Have to admit, you took me aback with that statement. Seems to me I'm always being proselytized from "evangelicals" how their field of weeds is actually grass. As they continue to hemorrhage members and get weaker, this is obviously more of a Priguni view, but its my opinion/interpretation that this is how they will fall to the Anti-Christ. And yes, a different topic, I'll add later on.

[A.O.L.]

English of course, otherwise TRUE communication with anyone would be at minimum.

Always Observing & Listening