Russian, English or both?

[Daniel M B]

(04-17-2010 04:57 PM)Guest Wrote:  

(04-16-2010 01:47 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  

(04-16-2010 07:07 AM)RedOctober Wrote:  

(04-14-2010 11:28 AM)d Wrote:  Also they do the 'old obryat' for their funerals, etc.. Which is just a different set of songs and prayers; more scripture.

That is, if anyone isn't sure....excludes "Blaghee Tvoresz" which is sung and read day of the funeral (from MGR). And I'm presuming it excludes praying "Ghospod Pasti Moi" according to E.G.K. And if memory serves me correctly, a few more songs(?).

Going to give credit where credit is due. At least they separated and formed a church more to their beliefs and stuck to it. Rather than abandon it and join a Protestant religion (as many did later after the reformed church was formed)....or show up to plainly obvious Priguni churches and then jump online and moan and complain about everything (yeah, they have credibility...in a pigs eye).

I agree Red,
Those not happy with the way their church is run, GO and make your own group.
SEE if you can do it better!
Those that have time over the week end, read DE 70 & 71. (S&L pg 149)
See what group you fit into (?)

Isn't it happening now and has happened constantly throughout the years with people getting their feelings hurt and forming their own church........it is happening alot in Australia right now and has happened in Fresno quite often......you hardcore Maximists are so confused calling yourself christians and yet denying the basic tenets of christianity.....you guys, the Mormons, the jehova witnesss all pretty much believe the same and happen to follow a man in the same format.All I could say is God will judge and your time will come.

You forgot to mention-
Russia
Armenia
Oregon
LA
Arizona

The first true church of Christ was formed by the Apostles in a communion format. Where the Spirit was with them and guided them.
That only lasted 40 years. Why?

Why was "big church" built? So every body could be gathered in one
place. Did that work? No. How many groups formed from that?
Big church was not a "hardcore maximist" group. They weren't even
"soft core".

You go to a church with the S&L on the prestol, you sing from it
(might even manifest in the Spirit while those words are being sung)
You where baptized, wedded and want to be buried by the orders
in the S&L, and you're on your knees praying along with all the
О Иисуси's, О все милостиый, Господи Боже Сававоф etc.
So what does that make you? A hypocrite?

Aren't the "maximisti" the ones leaving and forming there own groups?
Shouldn't you be happy with that?
Why aren't the "(worldly) christians" forming their own groups?
Why do they hang around "maximisti" groups and try to destroy
and trying to convert every one else? Is that the true love of Jesus?
As Christ said "Be the light..." Go make a group that every one will
be talking about and busting the doors down to get in! Can you do that?
No, I didn't think so!

Yes we are all going to be judged, I don't want to be judged for going
against some thing that was put in place, by the will of God, through the
Holy (True) Spirit.

"..happening ALOT in Australia" Please explain. 1 or 2 groups is alot?
I must be from some where else 'cause I ain't he'rd nuthin'!

[Daniel M B]

(04-20-2010 03:46 PM)Guest Wrote:  I would be curious as to what words they changed.

Quote:='Daniel M B'
I received, in the mail, the Reformed Church English song book.
Plus CDs of their singing. They changed the words to suit their
Christian beliefs.

PM me and I'll send the info so you can get your own pack

[Guest]

So what happens to the deceased if these words are not sung or recited?

...or is it just another man made ritual.

[Guest]

I have their song book and songs. Some of the words were changed so that the message would flow smoother from the russian to the english.

Just like the some of the words were added/changed or even deleted from the S & L to suit the new israel belief system.

(04-21-2010 02:35 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  

(04-20-2010 03:46 PM)Guest Wrote:  I would be curious as to what words they changed.

Quote:='Daniel M B'
I received, in the mail, the Reformed Church English song book.
Plus CDs of their singing. They changed the words to suit their
Christian beliefs.

PM me and I'll send the info so you can get your own pack

[mud]

I've just returned from Oregon, and we had this packet in our mailbox. My wife and I put the CDs on in our car to listen to them as we were running a few errands. Very interesting... my wife would smile when I would start singing along.

[RedOctober]

What happens? The same thing that happens to everyone else. If you don't like, no one is forcing you to stick around. And if you don't want to be buried by it....there is always Rose Hills or some other place.

(04-22-2010 07:05 AM)Guest Wrote:  So what happens to the deceased if these words are not sung or recited?

...or is it just another man made ritual.

[RedOctober]

(04-22-2010 07:13 AM)Guest Wrote:  I have their song book and songs. Some of the words were changed so that the message would flow smoother from the russian to the english.

So "Tsar Duxov" is in all those english translations....just changed things to flow smoother.....So are you saying the Reformed church had no problem singing songs from MGR, or songs that contained King of Spirits?

Quote:Just like the some of the words were added/changed or even deleted from the S & L to suit the new israel belief system.

Can't tell you how much I love this pathetic argument. On one side they state the wording was changed to "sanitize" the Spirit and Life, if so, then that would prove that the current Spirit and Life book meets "your standards" and there is nothing controversial. But then on the flip side they state all one has to do is read the Spirit and Life book and to see the alleged issues. So which is it, its either one or the other....Typical apostate tactics, throw everything against the wall and see what sticks, rationality, wisdom and intelligence need not apply. Just agree to westernized Protestantism and your in the club.

And of course you credentials in Russian-Slavonic hybrid language of the Trans Caucus region of peasants of the mid 1800's are.....

....yeah, thought so.

Which makes the original compilers of the Spirit and Life far more vest, adequate and qualified. Its like comparing the qualifications of a specialized surgeon to some one who knows how to use a first aid kit....you being the guy with the first aid kit.

[Daniel M B]

#4- "..Father God, ..Jesus Christ, ..Holy Spirit, ..Eternal God,
..brothers and sisters, ..Church of Christ".
They replaced King of Spirits with "Eternal God", as the song goes,
God was already mentioned. Are they calling Maxim "Eternal God"?
Boy that sure flows real smooth.

#5- 695 song, catchy tune?
Isn't the tune part of the song?
You've sung the song for years, then change the words, are you not
singing the same song? Don't the original words creep into your mind
as you're singing the new ones?
Aren't there enough "middle section" songs to sing?

Do you even know what "New Israel" means? No?, didn't think so!
Go ask "Tim" I'm sure hell set you straight. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

Go back to .net! We don't need your ecumenical views here!

(04-22-2010 07:13 AM)Guest Wrote:  I have their song book and songs. Some of the words were changed so that the message would flow smoother from the russian to the english.

Just like the some of the words were added/changed or even deleted from the S & L to suit the new israel belief system.

(04-21-2010 02:35 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  

(04-20-2010 03:46 PM)Guest Wrote:  I would be curious as to what words they changed.

Quote:='Daniel M B'
I received, in the mail, the Reformed Church English song book.
Plus CDs of their singing. They changed the words to suit their
Christian beliefs.

PM me and I'll send the info so you can get your own pack

[RedOctober]

Yeah...I knew the words were changed...but our guest friend was being completely dishonest. Trying to "play" like there are few differences when in reality, its quite significant.

He had a couple more posts that were designed purely for agitation....I got more important things to do than deal with an apostate molokan who is disgruntled and has an axe to grind.

He started a new thread...entitled "I dare you to post this".....yeah, right and I was in the second grade how long ago? Its oozing with hate and anger....not going to let that through. As a matter of fact, I'm wondering if he was sober when he composed it.

All I can say Mr. Guest is this, go get professional psychiatric help. Your blinded by rage, hate and hungry for revenge....even distoring events and facts to fit your world view. I got news for you, everything you wish for could happen....and you still won't be happy.

Sooner or later your "act" of playing "Christian" is going reveal itself and everyone is going to see through your farce. No amount of escapades, verbal abuse or grand standing is going to hurt any Molokan, its only going to give them even more reason to distrust and ignore you. And you will eventually find out just how supportive your so-called "Christian" friends will be when your trully are in need.

Seriously, get help, before you endanger yourself or someone else. Your on a path not only of spiritual destruction, but a physical as well.

(04-22-2010 03:42 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  #4- "..Father God, ..Jesus Christ, ..Holy Spirit, ..Eternal God,
..brothers and sisters, ..Church of Christ".
They replaced King of Spirits with "Eternal God", as the song goes,
God was already mentioned. Are they calling Maxim "Eternal God"?
Boy that sure flows real smooth.

#5- 695 song, catchy tune?
Isn't the tune part of the song?
You've sung the song for years, then change the words, are you not
singing the same song? Don't the original words creep into your mind
as you're singing the new ones?
Aren't there enough "middle section" songs to sing?

Do you even know what "New Israel" means? No?, didn't think so!
Go ask "Tim" I'm sure hell set you straight. Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight!

Go back to .net! We don't need your ecumenical views here!

(04-22-2010 07:13 AM)Guest Wrote:  I have their song book and songs. Some of the words were changed so that the message would flow smoother from the russian to the english.

Just like the some of the words were added/changed or even deleted from the S & L to suit the new israel belief system.

(04-21-2010 02:35 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  

(04-20-2010 03:46 PM)Guest Wrote:  I would be curious as to what words they changed.

Quote:='Daniel M B'
I received, in the mail, the Reformed Church English song book.
Plus CDs of their singing. They changed the words to suit their
Christian beliefs.

PM me and I'll send the info so you can get your own pack

[d]

In reference to the changes made, see the original post below; changes were made consistently with their beliefs. Those beliefs don't include Maxim Gavrilovich as anything more than a man, so they removed the praise given the the king of spirits, and any other such name given to himself. The same beliefs in fact which are shared by many practicing molokans who are able to put up with the true believers in Maxim Gavrilovich, because they appreciate remaining in the molokan fold.

It is interesting to note that many true believers in Christ remain as active molokans as long as they are mostly quiet about what they believe. And the orthodox molokans are content as long as they keep their faith quiet. But as soon as they see room for our people to grow and mature as a christian people, the witch-hunt begins. It is eerily familiar to many stories from when the molokans awoke in the orthodox church, and also when the jumpers awoke in the molokans.

(04-14-2010 11:28 AM)d Wrote:  The molokan reformed church is in Woodburn Oregon. Actually it is on page 167 of the 2004 molokan directory. They do the old molokan obryat, which is what the basic molokan sunday morning church is in the rest of the churches. Sitting at benches for sizhma then standing for prayer and singing.
Also they do the 'old obryat' for their funerals, etc.. Which is just a different set of songs and prayers; more scripture.

Their setup is pretty much the same as the rest of the molokan churches, with three exceptions:
1) No 'Book of the Sun'. The only spirit and life they have are the words of Jesus Christ. (John 6:63)
2) No restrictions on language, they allow russian and english; in prayers, speeches and songs. Mostly all molokan songs with the same tunes sung in english.
3) No bloodline restrictions on who is allowed to attend.

For more detailed info see page 167 of the 2004 molokan directory and call the Minister. I assume it is also in the 2008 directory, It is called the Christian Molokan Church of Woodburn.