Cult is a four letter word.

[RedOctober]

Whenever I hear the word "cult" I cringe. Why? Because 99.9% of the time its used in a deragatory manner. That is, used to convery to the other person or persons:

1: Your religious beliefs and faith are inferior.

2: You lack significant mental apptitude.

3: You are some how in matters in faith, inferior or delusional.

4: Its used as a method of disrespect to others.

5: Its used like the word "ne-nash" in a gross definition.

From wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult

Quote:Cult pejoratively refers to a group whose beliefs or practices could be considered strange or sinister.[1] The term was originally used to denote a system of ritual practices. The narrower, derogatory sense of the word is a product of the 20th century, especially since the 1980s, and is a result of the anti-cult movement, which uses the term in reference to groups seen as authoritarian, exploitative and possibly dangerous.

The popular, derogatory sense of the term has no currency in academic studies of religions, where "cults" are subsumed under the neutral label of "new religious movement", while academic sociology has partly adopted the popular meaning of the term.

Going further, its easy to describe any religion/faith you leave as a cult and describing members as being under a form of "mind control". The irony of the statement! Many athiest use this exact same statement when describing most of Christianity. Furthermore, many so-called definitions of a "cult" can often fit the bill of just about any religion. For example, the most often point used in a definition: Promotion, near worship or worship of an individual. Most don't realize, Christ, Moses, the Apostles, etc. all fit this. As the saying goes...the blind leading the blind.

Mainstream religous groups use the word cult and equate it with Jonestown, Koresh of Waco, etc. then use it on predominately on the Mormon, Jehovah Witness or any other "non-politicaly acceptable" groups. Why? Simply put, the winning of converts is the winning of "donations" which keeps their respective paid ministers and church "in business". Hence, they demonize these faiths when if fact the vast majority of what they describe as "cults" do not have "suicide pacts".

Any Molokan or for that manner anyone, who uses this word "cult" to describe any group of people they may disagree with in matters of faith should be ashamed of themselves. Its no different (and perhaps worse) using the word "ne-nash" in a derogatory form.

[Daniel M B]

I can't agree with you more, those, that are useing the word "cult" to discribe molokans or readers/adhirerers of the S&L
are using control/fear tactics same as those of the above mentioned cults.
Those people SHOULD BE ASHAMED!
There's that old saying "horses for horses, lions for lions ect."

"Ne-nash" (not-ours) are just that and nothing derogatory.
We are sorounded by them every were and probably would prefer them over our own,
but this is the basket we have been put into and only through Gods will ne-nashi have joined,
and if we look back, they were workers and prophets of God, and did not lead people away from the faith
but strengthened their faith especially in the belief of the True Spirit.

Most molokan churches won't let ne-nashi (or married out, divorced ect.) participate/join but a lot attend services
(especially weddings and funerals) and most love how we conduct our services and want to know how they can be a part of it.
What do you tell them? I usally reply "I'm sorry but you have to be born into it." and they respect that.

Those that go against our faith, should not but should have a look at all those that would love to but can't!

[RedOctober]

The word Ne-nash initial use wasn't derogatory....however, over time some have used it as such and of course apostate Molokans have exploited this. Just like the word "cult" was really a non-issue word. But mainstream Christianity has latched on to this and used it in a derogatory form..

What I find interesting is, they use the derogatory form as a fear tactic. They use salvation as a fear tactic...such as "you don't know Jesus thus your doomed!" If you don't uphold or question the established doctrines then you are not "Christian" enough and are doomed. And of course they mention eternal torment quite frequently...another fear tactic. And of course, if you don't believe in the "Rapture" as they define it, then you might get left behind!

And the ultimate irony? They say we use fear tactics. Pot to kettle...

The use of fear in Religion, Nationalism, Politics, etc. is nothing new of course. Its often used to instill loyalty...when ironically enough, they fear they may lose the loyalty. Another reason its used is to win converts as well and this is the saddest part. They prey on the good intentions of people in order to satisfy their own doubts and misgivings. They believe that the more they convert to their view, then its confirmation they are correct. Well at least for a little while...then they look for someone else to blindside. Long story short, they continue to lie to themselves and one of two things happen. They lie long enough to themselves that they believe it despite what evidence you show contrary to them or they eventually give up (and sometimes these are the most zealous) and quietly fade away never understanding that the answer was starring right in front of them. Its very unfortunate.

[RedOctober]

I put this in the Weekend Wisdom thread of the Religion Section but think I'll also add it here.

Proverbs 1:22
“How long will you simpletons love naiveté?
How long will mockers delight in mockery
and fools hate knowledge?

That's what it kind of boils down to...mockery. When people don't understand something or refuse to understand it, they fall back on mockery. Just to give you an example, there is even a facebook page for MGR that appears to have been created just for the purpose of mockery. As Christ said, a Prophet is not welcome amongst his own. Just shows you the mentality of some.

[RedOctober]

Continuing on in my two penny soapbox...

The argument that a cult is a group that diverges from established doctrines is one of the more laughable if not pathetic arguments. All the ecumenical doctrines were man-made. Thus George Bernard Shaw's quote of "A cult is a religion with no political power" seems very appropriate.

But one of the more interesting things about those who use the word cult in a derogatory form is, they often cite Jonestown and the Peoples Temple group. Granted later on the church really began to go awry, but most don't realize for the most part, the church was "Doctrinally Sound".

Jim Jones was a Pastor in good standing with the Disciples of Christ Church (and was student Pastor with the Methodist church), a mainstream Protestant church. They had soup kitchens for the pour, job placement, etc. His church was considered very revolutionary because, they accepted others and embraced people of other races. Jim Jones was even on the Indianapolis Human Rights Commission. And of course its well documented that they got involved in influencing politics....much like the current fundamentalist groups do today. They did indeed have faith healings, but if their doctrine was sound, who is going to question it? . Thus one can conclude, at the onset, a cult looks very much like a protestant church.

Moving on, the definition of a cult not being a group not conforming to established doctrines, one will be very surprised as to how many fit that bill.

Those who accept creationism are part of a cult. The account of creation in Genesis is very brief and leaves a lot more questions than answers. With the natural sciences explaining things in terms of...well, natural science, many have taken this as an attack to the Book of Genesis and of course the fundamentalist view is the entire Bible is the inerrant and absolute Word of God, by preponderance, an attack on the Bible. Thus to counter the scientific community, they have developed a lavish (and always evolving) story that is very loosely based on the Bible and based more on human conjecture.

Those who talk Rapture to no end are also categorically a cult. Out of one sentence in the Bible, some have become millionaires publishing books, preaching, lecturing on this cultist idea. A lot of "read this line here then jump to this book to this verse here and then to.." is involved....and very David Koresh like.

What I find rather bemusing is, you never hear much about these two philosophies being a cult. Well, because is politically acceptable for now, much like the Peoples Temple was acceptable.

[fourvetta]

(02-02-2010 01:15 PM)RedOctober Wrote:  Jim Jones was a Pastor in good standing with the Disciples of Christ Church (and was student Pastor with the Methodist church), a mainstream Protestant church. They had soup kitchens for the pour, job placement, etc. His church was considered very revolutionary because, they accepted others and embraced people of other races.

He was once seen serving turkey dinners to drug addicts living under bridges.

[Vanilla Bean]

Excerpt from Marcia Rudin's 14 Common Characteristics of a Cult:
*Cults try to portray themselves as benign and may hide undesirable aspects of their operation from the public and from members. Thus the stereotype of "blind" followers.


Mind Control - The BITE Model

From chapter two of Releasing the Bonds: Empowering People to Think for Themselves*

*© 2000 by Steven Hassan; published by Freedom of Mind Press, Somerville MA

Destructive mind control can be understood in terms of four basic components, which form the acronym BITE:

I. Behavior Control
II. Information Control
III. Thought Control
IV. Emotional Control

It is important to understand that destructive mind control can be determined when the overall effect of these four components promotes dependency and obedience to some leader or cause. It is not necessary for every single item on the list to be present. Mind controlled cult members can live in their own apartments, have nine-to-five jobs, be married with children, and still be unable to think for themselves and act independently.


I. Behavior Control

1. Regulation of individual's physical reality

a. Where, how and with whom the member lives and associates with
b. What clothes, colors, hairstyles the person wears
c. What food the person eats, drinks, adopts, and rejects
d. How much sleep the person is able to have
e. Financial dependence
f. Little or no time spent on leisure, entertainment, vacations

2. Major time commitment required for indoctrination sessions and group rituals

3. Need to ask permission for major decisions

4. Need to report thoughts, feelings and activities to superiors

5. Rewards and punishments (behavior modification techniques- positive and negative).

6. Individualism discouraged; group think prevails

7. Rigid rules and regulations

8. Need for obedience and dependency

II. Information Control

1. Use of deception

a. Deliberately holding back information
b. Distorting information to make it acceptable
c. Outright lying

2. Access to non-cult sources of information minimized or discouraged

a. Books, articles, newspapers, magazines, TV, radio
b. Critical information
c. Former members
d. Keep members so busy they don't have time to think

3. Compartmentalization of information; Outsider vs. Insider doctrines

a. Information is not freely accessible
b. Information varies at different levels and missions within pyramid
c. Leadership decides who "needs to know" what

4. Spying on other members is encouraged

a. Pairing up with "buddy" system to monitor and control
b. Reporting deviant thoughts, feelings, and actions to leadership

5. Extensive use of cult generated information and propaganda

a. Newsletters, magazines, journals, audio tapes, videotapes, etc.
b. Misquotations, statements taken out of context from non-cult sources

6. Unethical use of confession

a. Information about "sins" used to abolish identity boundaries
b. Past "sins" used to manipulate and control; no forgiveness or absolution

III. Thought Control

1. Need to internalize the group's doctrine as "Truth"

a. Map = Reality
b. Black and White thinking
c. Good vs. evil
d. Us vs. them (inside vs. outside)

2. Adopt "loaded" language (characterized by "thought-terminating clichés"). Words are the tools we use to think with. These "special" words constrict rather than expand understanding. They function to reduce complexities of experience into trite, platitudinous "buzz words".

3. Only "good" and "proper" thoughts are encouraged.

4. Thought-stopping techniques (to shut down "reality testing" by stopping "negative" thoughts and allowing only "good" thoughts); rejection of rational analysis, critical thinking, constructive criticism.

a. Denial, rationalization, justification, wishful thinking
b. Chanting
c. Meditating
d. Praying
e. Speaking in "tongues"
f. Singing or humming

5. No critical questions about leader, doctrine, or policy seen as legitimate

6. No alternative belief systems viewed as legitimate, good, or useful

IV. Emotional Control

1. Manipulate and narrow the range of a person's feelings.

2. Make the person feel like if there are ever any problems it is always their fault, never the leader's or the group's.

3. Excessive use of guilt

a. Identity guilt

1. Who you are (not living up to your potential)
2. Your family
3. Your past
4. Your affiliations
5. Your thoughts, feelings, actions

b. Social guilt
c. Historical guilt

4. Excessive use of fear

a. Fear of thinking independently
b. Fear of the "outside" world
c. Fear of enemies
d. Fear of losing one's "salvation"
e. Fear of leaving the group or being shunned by group
f. Fear of disapproval

5. Extremes of emotional highs and lows.

6. Ritual and often public confession of "sins".

7. Phobia indoctrination : programming of irrational fears of ever leaving the group or even questioning the leader's authority. The person under mind control cannot visualize a positive, fulfilled future without being in the group.

a. No happiness or fulfillment "outside"of the group
b. Terrible consequences will take place if you leave: "hell"; "demon possession"; "incurable diseases"; "accidents"; "suicide"; "insanity"; "10,000 reincarnations"; etc.
c. Shunning of leave takers. Fear of being rejected by friends, peers, and family.
d. Never a legitimate reason to leave. From the group's perspective, people who leave are: "weak;" "undisciplined;" "unspiritual;" "worldly;" "brainwashed by family, counselors;" seduced by money, sex, rock and roll.


Other links for more information:

http://www.carm.org/religious-movements/...lysis-them

http://www.freeminds.org/psychology/cult...terns.html

http://www.freedomofmind.com/resourcecen...s/BITE.htm

[RedOctober]

Whats fascinating about that, many of those traits could directly describe the mainstream religions. And how its written is telling. What if number I. Behavioral Control was at the end instead? Your average person reading all the other traits first would think there main-stream religion was a cult. But by making that number one, which is also a rarity, in sensationalizes the material and the reader into a mode of thinking.

The thought process is number one has to exist first, therefore it excludes any similarities their Protestant, Orthodox, Catholic religion may exhibit in the rest of the list. But conversely they can still use the rest of it to classify anything they see as different and out of their comfort zone as a "cult". Very clever use of psychology.