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KPN · 09-13-2011, 12:31 AM

(09-12-2011 01:45 PM)IV Wrote:
(09-11-2011 10:43 AM)RedOctober Wrote: Nor does he have the same reknown and honor as God,

Mark 10.
[17] And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[18] And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

If Christ was God, he would have not refused being called good.

That certainly explains it. How can one continue thinking Jesus is God after reading this passage. It's pretty cut and dry stuff.

I agree with you, it is pretty clear.
The scriptures make it clear that there is only ONE who is good.
9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
Zechariah 14:9 NASB95
But the question is, who is the "good one"?

In this passage, Jesus is NOT saying that He (Jesus) is "not good."
Jesus is only asking this man WHY he is calling Him "good."
In other words, Jesus is using a question to reveal Himself and His deity.

This is nothing new because God has been using questions to convict people of the truth from the beginning.

9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”
Genesis 3:9 NASB95

9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Genesis 4:9 NASB95

Did God really not know the answer to these questions?
Of course He knew the answer.

Did Jesus really not know the answer to His question?
Of course He knew the answer.

Also, we know that Jesus was not saying He was "not good", because He later explains how "good" He actually is.
11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
John 10:11 NASB95

And we know that Jesus has been "good" from time eternal....past, present and future.
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Hebrews 13:8 NASB95

***RedOctober*** · 09-16-2011, 08:47 PM

Quote:In stating that, is Jesus bad then? Based on your conclusion, you would have to agree with that.

No, I didn't say that, nor is it my conclusion, nor do I "agree with that"...but rather its your conclusion Mr. Admin of the other site. You really shouldn't jump to conclusions, assume that’s what was meant and then put words into other peoples mouth. Someone might call you liar if you do that….oh wait…

My point wasn't to bring out Jesus was good or bad...but to point out, explicitly, he is not God. Look at the whole sentence, he was called "Good Teacher"...Christ implicated that he is not the Good Teacher...instead inferred his Father.

John 5
[31] If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true;
[32] there is another who bears witness to me, and I know that the testimony which he bears to me is true.

Christ is giving his Fathers testimony, not his, hence he is not teaching his testimony but his Fathers. The Good Teacher is the Father and hence, God. Christ calls himself the Good Sheppard;

John 10
[11] I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep.
[12] He who is a hireling and not a shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf snatches them and scatters them.
[13] He flees because he is a hireling and cares nothing for the sheep.
[14] I am the good shepherd; I know my own and my own know me,
[15] as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep.
[16] And I have other sheep, that are not of this fold; I must bring them also, and they will heed my voice. So there shall be one flock, one shepherd.
[17] For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
[18] No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again; this charge I have received from my Father."

Christ is the protector of the flock, not its teacher, that role belongs to God.

Quote:And, with that you must deny Jesus was sinless, that He never violated God's law and that in fact, Jesus needs a Savior.

No, Christ was sinless, perfect, etc. He is the Son of God, how could the Son of God, the first of all, Gods first born violate the law? Satan tried and failed (Luke 4:1-14). But seeing where you’re going with this, he is no mere man either, being the Son of God, his firstborn is far more than man, he sits on the right of God! To use a modern term, he's God's right hand guy. Hence he is no mere man, nor God, but he is the Son of God!

Quote:Check this out:

http://answering-islam.org/Shamoun/q_only_god_good.htm

No, I won’t “check this out”. I’m not Islamic, nor do I subscribe to their beliefs or criticism of other faiths. If I happen to point out a flaw (which are many in the Trinity Doctrine) that similar to theirs, this its merely coincidence…which is all too common amongst the JW’s, Mormons, Atheist’s and even members of established denominations (Baptists, Lutherans, etc.). The Trinity Doctrine has many gaping holes that simply doesn’t reconcile with scripture. The only way you can is via conjecture and speculation.

Quote:Continuing the discussion, you must take into account this portion:
Romans 3:9 What then? Are we Jews any better off? No, not at all. For we have already charged that all, both Jews and Greeks, are under sin, 10 as it is written:"None is righteous, no, not one;
11 no one understands; no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one."

Your position would classify Jesus with this portion of Scripture as well.

And, the righteousness of Christ in your belief is worthless. Jesus is not good according to your position. Hence, you follow a works based religion. A "faith" which cannot save, but will only damn you to hell.

As typical Mr. Admin of the other site, first you imply its “in the same discussion” when it suits your needs, but then immediately try to throw it into a tangent. Romans 3 refers to man, Christ was not just a man nor has anyone stated so, as you tried to bear false witness to earlier. He is the Son of God! Thus your argument is null and void.

Oh and Molokans don’t do a “works based religion”. The works they do is out of love, something you can’t seem to grasp. No one would get up 3 or 4 am, head 30-45 minutes to church, prepare food, clean, etc. for a wedding, pomikee, etc. then work through the day and clean up afterwards, oh and did I mention they almost don’t get to fully participate?...all so that the loved ones can have their moment with God and their guests. I mean, why do that if you can be in another religion and have it catered? But where would the love be in that…other than money.

***RedOctober*** · 09-16-2011, 08:51 PM

Kevin, that’s a lot of scripture splicing and conjecture. Christ is the Good Sheppard…but he is not the Good Teacher. See my response to Mr. S… on the previous post. Sure he is a teacher, Christ didn’t refuse that title, but what is he teaching? His own testimony or his Fathers? Scripture is clear, his Fathers.

(09-13-2011 12:31 AM)KPN Wrote:
(09-12-2011 01:45 PM)IV Wrote:
(09-11-2011 10:43 AM)RedOctober Wrote: Nor does he have the same reknown and honor as God,

Mark 10.
[17] And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, "Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?"
[18] And Jesus said to him, "Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.

If Christ was God, he would have not refused being called good.

That certainly explains it. How can one continue thinking Jesus is God after reading this passage. It's pretty cut and dry stuff.
I agree with you, it is pretty clear.
The scriptures make it clear that there is only ONE who is good.
9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth; in that day the LORD will be the only one, and His name the only one.
Zechariah 14:9 NASB95
But the question is, who is the "good one"?

In this passage, Jesus is NOT saying that He (Jesus) is "not good."
Jesus is only asking this man WHY he is calling Him "good."
In other words, Jesus is using a question to reveal Himself and His deity.

This is nothing new because God has been using questions to convict people of the truth from the beginning.

9 Then the LORD God called to the man, and said to him, “Where are you?”
Genesis 3:9 NASB95

9 Then the LORD said to Cain, “Where is Abel your brother?” And he said, “I do not know. Am I my brother’s keeper?”
Genesis 4:9 NASB95

Did God really not know the answer to these questions?
Of course He knew the answer.

Did Jesus really not know the answer to His question?
Of course He knew the answer.

Also, we know that Jesus was not saying He was "not good", because He later explains how "good" He actually is.
11 “I am the good shepherd; the good shepherd lays down His life for the sheep.
John 10:11 NASB95

And we know that Jesus has been "good" from time eternal....past, present and future.
8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.
Hebrews 13:8 NASB95

09-19-2011, 09:10 PM

You have the chronic symptoms of eisegesis. The anti-Christ book you follow causes you to read the Scripture through the lens of the sick and tainted messenger's of satan that compile the writings therein.

***RedOctober*** · 09-20-2011, 05:23 PM

LOL!

Well that didn’t take you long! Normally I would just delete such a post, but I couldn’t resist using this quote by Elbert Hubbard:

“If you can't answer a man's arguments, all is not lost; you can still call him vile names.”

I could also point out how you contradicted yourself in the insult….or post something from the Bible about the mouth being unclean, but you’ll just ignore both, so no point in doing so. Plus I’d like to keep this topic on track and not start a new one with someone’s bitterness.

(09-19-2011 09:10 PM)Guest Wrote: You have the chronic symptoms of eisegesis. The anti-Christ book you follow causes you to read the Scripture through the lens of the sick and tainted messenger's of satan that compile the writings therein.