That other site

[RedOctober]

Wall,

Can you wait until I approve a message first before replying to it?

That or I figure out how to make sure your replies also need approval.....not sure if its a bug or user error.

[wall]

(03-24-2010 03:41 PM)RedOctober Wrote:  Wall,

Can you wait until I approve a message first before replying to it?

That or I figure out how to make sure your replies also need approval.....not sure if its a bug or user error.

Of course.

[Daniel M B]

(03-24-2010 03:36 PM)wall Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

Dan, can you share where that comment about BSF is? Maybe I missed something, but if you're referencing what I'm thinking seems you've added quite a bit of words.

I had a quick look, I'm sure it was in the BSF (split) ... Thread.
"...there are elders that have taken the course..."
Red replied "... that would clear up a few things..."
I just put it together!

[somebody]

(03-24-2010 03:36 PM)wall Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

Dan, can you share where that comment about BSF is? Maybe I missed something, but if you're referencing what I'm thinking seems you've added quite a bit of words.

I believe he is referring to this post by you (Wall).

Post 17 in the BSF faith without works thread.

Some of the people I know who have attended are now older in age and are still walking in the Lord. Its takes 8 years to complete the whole lesson so you can imagine how long ago they attended. Some even stand on front row positions in our churches. So I would say the foundation these lessons lay in the Lord has some solid results. But I agree, not everyone who attends will be so touched. The same can be applied to any class or study.

[wall]

(03-25-2010 12:17 AM)somebody Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 03:36 PM)wall Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

Dan, can you share where that comment about BSF is? Maybe I missed something, but if you're referencing what I'm thinking seems you've added quite a bit of words.

I believe he is referring to this post by you (Wall).

Post 17 in the BSF faith without works thread.

Some of the people I know who have attended are now older in age and are still walking in the Lord. Its takes 8 years to complete the whole lesson so you can imagine how long ago they attended. Some even stand on front row positions in our churches. So I would say the foundation these lessons lay in the Lord has some solid results. But I agree, not everyone who attends will be so touched. The same can be applied to any class or study.

Thats where I thought he was referencing from. No where in the reference do I read using anything from BSF to run/teach the churches? Thats how rumors get started. I have pointed out all the accusations made towards BSF and found them to be mostly false. So this little play on words has no merit and is a false representation of what was said.

[RedOctober]

In keeping with that same analogy, why a person changes jobs can be akin to changing their religion as well.

If you work real hard but still receive nothing but criticism, after awhile your going to leave and go to where your talents are appreciated. I know some like to critique the certain things amongst are own, hence why my response is usually telling them to volunteer and do something. If your not willing to change something, then you really don't have too much of a voice.

Next, some may feel they are at a dead end or feel disenfranchised and think things are going no where. No matter if its true or not, thats how they feel and it probably wont be long before they move on.

As for greater reward, just about every religion that actively proselytizes paints themselves as having a greater reward....so some may be lured by that. Or any combination of the above.

With those mentioned plus the psychological tactics used by so-called evangelist, a person could find themselves vulnerable.

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

[RedOctober]

(03-25-2010 08:02 AM)wall Wrote:  Thats where I thought he was referencing from. No where in the reference do I read using anything from BSF to run/teach the churches? Thats how rumors get started. I have pointed out all the accusations made towards BSF and found them to be mostly false. So this little play on words has no merit and is a false representation of what was said.

However, wall, consider this:

1. In that same thread one that is one of BSF's aims: http://www.molokanunderground.com/thread...age-1.html Post #6

2. How can anyone know if a person is or isn't disseminating and teaching things they have learned from BSF....they don't publish their material for anyone else to evaluate. And its already been established that a number of Molokan beliefs do not mesh with their teachings.

[Daniel M B]

(03-25-2010 08:02 AM)wall Wrote:  

(03-25-2010 12:17 AM)somebody Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 03:36 PM)wall Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

Dan, can you share where that comment about BSF is? Maybe I missed something, but if you're referencing what I'm thinking seems you've added quite a bit of words.

I believe he is referring to this post by you (Wall).

Post 17 in the BSF faith without works thread.

Some of the people I know who have attended are now older in age and are still walking in the Lord. Its takes 8 years to complete the whole lesson so you can imagine how long ago they attended. Some even stand on front row positions in our churches. So I would say the foundation these lessons lay in the Lord has some solid results. But I agree, not everyone who attends will be so touched. The same can be applied to any class or study.

Thats where I thought he was referencing from. No where in the reference do I read using anything from BSF to run/teach the churches? Thats how rumors get started. I have pointed out all the accusations made towards BSF and found them to be mostly false. So this little play on words has no merit and is a false representation of what was said.

In our churches, being in "front row positions" makes you an elder
and with that you get a say in the way things are done.
You get asked to speak (besedat) more often thus you have a
chance to show the people your knowledge and interpretation of the
scriptures. That is the point where that teaching is creeping into
the minds and hearts of the people that want some fulfillment.
Usually the unsuspecting young minds.

Maybe our elders did not do enough to teach us about the faith
of our forefathers. Maybe they were also a little lazy to read
and be guided by the Spirit of understanding.

My aunt liked to watch Billy G. on TV Sunday mornings before church
I asked her why she was watching this (we were taught that we do
not listen to any preacher that has not been baptized in the Spirit of
fire, fiery tongues) she said it was better than watching the news.
We went to church and all three speakers quoted from Billy Gs' sermon.
Now is that what they had prepared to talk about or was it easier
to turn on the tube and presto! you have your beseda for the day?
We are not being guided by the Spirit of God.
We are being guided by the teachings of Billy, Chuck, David and all
the rest like them.
BSF (as claimed) isn't any religions teaching but has all religions
learning from it and adding their views, and if you are sitting there
and listening, you are going to pick it up and repeat it else where!
That is the problem!

[wall]

(03-25-2010 03:00 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  

(03-25-2010 08:02 AM)wall Wrote:  

(03-25-2010 12:17 AM)somebody Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 03:36 PM)wall Wrote:  

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote:  Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

Dan, can you share where that comment about BSF is? Maybe I missed something, but if you're referencing what I'm thinking seems you've added quite a bit of words.

I believe he is referring to this post by you (Wall).

Post 17 in the BSF faith without works thread.

Some of the people I know who have attended are now older in age and are still walking in the Lord. Its takes 8 years to complete the whole lesson so you can imagine how long ago they attended. Some even stand on front row positions in our churches. So I would say the foundation these lessons lay in the Lord has some solid results. But I agree, not everyone who attends will be so touched. The same can be applied to any class or study.

Thats where I thought he was referencing from. No where in the reference do I read using anything from BSF to run/teach the churches? Thats how rumors get started. I have pointed out all the accusations made towards BSF and found them to be mostly false. So this little play on words has no merit and is a false representation of what was said.

In our churches, being in "front row positions" makes you an elder
and with that you get a say in the way things are done.
You get asked to speak (besedat) more often thus you have a
chance to show the people your knowledge and interpretation of the
scriptures. That is the point where that teaching is creeping into
the minds and hearts of the people that want some fulfillment.
Usually the unsuspecting young minds.

Maybe our elders did not do enough to teach us about the faith
of our forefathers. Maybe they were also a little lazy to read
and be guided by the Spirit of understanding.

My aunt liked to watch Billy G. on TV Sunday mornings before church
I asked her why she was watching this (we were taught that we do
not listen to any preacher that has not been baptized in the Spirit of
fire, fiery tongues) she said it was better than watching the news.
We went to church and all three speakers quoted from Billy Gs' sermon.
Now is that what they had prepared to talk about or was it easier
to turn on the tube and presto! you have your beseda for the day?
We are not being guided by the Spirit of God.
We are being guided by the teachings of Billy, Chuck, David and all
the rest like them.
BSF (as claimed) isn't any religions teaching but has all religions
learning from it and adding their views, and if you are sitting there
and listening, you are going to pick it up and repeat it else where!
That is the problem!

Guess its just different perspectives. Most on here seem threatened by BSF study because it appears to challenge beliefs acquired out of the S&L. I view it different, a group of people from all walks of life and churches studying the Word of God together. So I guess the biggest threat is no S&L influence.

[Daniel M B]

Wall, get a group of your molokan mates together and study all the scriptures (OT, NT and S&L)
Put it all together, find an elder (that has understanding of all the books) that you can get some advice from and go from there.
Why do we need John Smith or Paul Jones to teach us, when we have our own that are qualified?
Just a thought. (Thats if you haven't made up your mind already!)