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***RedOctober*** · 03-23-2010, 07:50 AM

(03-22-2010 04:50 PM)Guest Wrote: Honestly Red, there is no need for me to comment, or defend myself. The tone, and language you use says it all.

Oh I get it, you, seeking or anyone else can be obnoxious and belligerent as you want, but it's perfectly ok since you think you know Jesus. The ends justifies the means. But when you get a taste of your own medicine, suddenly its wrong because were Molokans, talk about hypocrisy. You want to run roughshod right over us and impose your Hellenistic false teaching irregardless of objections that are made. And you will dismiss and ignore every reason and explanation for the differences of interpretation of the Bible and Spirit and Life. All you want is every Molokan to sit down and shut up and take your twisted teachings and partake in unclean spiritual food like you have.

Why? Because you are not happy. You don't feel the family bond with your new found church. You've seen the problems they face and realize that they can affect you and your family in a very bad way. And you also know that your foundation is not based on Christ at all, but instead its based upon being anti-Spirit and Life....and nothing more. So you want the whole Molokan nation to convert for nothing more than to massage your fears that your not doing the right thing. And of course, to rekindle the bond with Molokans you condemned and renounced. Your not the first to try this and probably won't be the last...and they have all failed.

[34] But a Pharisee in the council named Gama'li-el, a teacher of the law, held in honor by all the people, stood up and ordered the men to be put outside for a while.
[35] And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you do with these men.
[36] For before these days Theu'das arose, giving himself out to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him; but he was slain and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
[37] After him Judas the Galilean arose in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him; he also perished, and all who followed him were scattered.
[38] So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail;
[39] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"

~~stevepiv~~ · 03-23-2010, 09:05 AM

(03-23-2010 07:50 AM)RedOctober Wrote: Oh I get it, you, seeking or anyone else can be obnoxious and belligerent as you want, but it's perfectly ok since you think you know Jesus. The ends justifies the means. But when you get a taste of your own medicine, suddenly its wrong because were Molokans, talk about hypocrisy. You want to run roughshod right over us and impose your Hellenistic false teaching irregardless of objections that are made. And you will dismiss and ignore every reason and explanation for the differences of interpretation of the Bible and Spirit and Life. All you want is every Molokan to sit down and shut up and take your twisted teachings and partake in unclean spiritual food like you have.

Why? Because you are not happy. You don't feel the family bond with your new found church. You've seen the problems they face and realize that they can affect you and your family in a very bad way. And you also know that your foundation is not based on Christ at all, but instead its based upon being anti-Spirit and Life....and nothing more. So you want the whole Molokan nation to convert for nothing more than to massage your fears that your not doing the right thing. And of course, to rekindle the bond with Molokans you condemned and renounced. Your not the first to try this and probably won't be the last...and they have all failed.

[34] But a Pharisee in the council named Gama'li-el, a teacher of the law, held in honor by all the people, stood up and ordered the men to be put outside for a while.
[35] And he said to them, "Men of Israel, take care what you do with these men.
[36] For before these days Theu'das arose, giving himself out to be somebody, and a number of men, about four hundred, joined him; but he was slain and all who followed him were dispersed and came to nothing.
[37] After him Judas the Galilean arose in the days of the census and drew away some of the people after him; he also perished, and all who followed him were scattered.
[38] So in the present case I tell you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this undertaking is of men, it will fail;
[39] but if it is of God, you will not be able to overthrow them. You might even be found opposing God!"

RedOctober,

So, it's okay for you to tell people when you think they are rude and how Un-Christ like that it is.

But, then on the other hand, you are giving back medicine that you yourself say is Un-Christ like.

Then, you claim the hypocrisy card.

Why, when the medicine you yourself say is Un-Christ like, go and do the exact same that you are against?

And then say:

(03-23-2010 07:50 AM)RedOctober Wrote: Oh I get it, you, seeking or anyone else can be obnoxious and belligerent as you want, but it's perfectly ok since you think you know Jesus. The ends justifies the means. But when you get a taste of your own medicine, suddenly its wrong because were Molokans, talk about hypocrisy.

You have used the quote that is from Niccolo Machiavelli:

(03-23-2010 07:50 AM)RedOctober Wrote: The ends justifies the means.

Yet, when we look at the "means" used to keep the "brotherhood" together and in tact, the wrong that is done is overlooked????

03-23-2010, 09:22 AM

Red, with every sentence that you write, you offer up more evidence as to who you really are. Remember, one of the fruits of the spirit is self control.

***RedOctober*** · (This post was last modified: 03-23-2010 10:26 AM by RedOctober.)

Stevepiv,

Do I think its okay to give the same medicine back? No. I don't make any excuses for it, but I decided to show how they look themselves by becoming similar. Nor is it easy to sink to that level, I had to work really hard at being that inflammatory. Its not my natural character. And yet...it comes as natural to others who claim to profess Christ. What does that say? Its well known I don't approve of the "Confrontational Evangelism" approach (and alarmingly, almost every so-called evangelist is taught to use this method), however, when I responded in wisdom, many took that as weakness...and it only encouraged them. So I had few options left.

Question is, do you support these methods? Your quick on here to come out swinging at anything you don't like...but when a fellow anti-Spirit and Life of yours does the same thing...you don't say a word. Your taking issue with me, but you sure haven't taken issue with Mr. Guest. You should be scolding both of us.

I could have just as easily not allowed Mr. Guest here or Paul to go on their respective tirades, but instead, I decided to be a mirror of sorts. If they don't like what they see...then they sure don't like themselves.

Furthermore, I don't believe the end justifies the means. But for many apostates, that does seem to be the case.

***RedOctober*** · 03-23-2010, 10:25 AM

(03-23-2010 09:22 AM)Guest Wrote: Red, with every sentence that you write, you offer up more evidence as to who you really are. Remember, one of the fruits of the spirit is self control.

Thank you. You proven my point and judged yourself. You came on here, a pro Spirit and Life site (and its well advertised as such) and started in with inflammatory posts and a chip on your shoulder. I fire back equally....and you cry foul. If you don't like how you were treated, then maybe you shouldn't treat others that way. Self Control is definitely a fruit...and as is such, I'm done. I'm not going to allow any more of your tirades. Keep them on .net where they belong, I don't like sinking down to that level. You may be on your self appointed mission against the Spirit and Life, but your avenue here is at an end.

**Daniel M B** · 03-23-2010, 03:00 PM

As you said Red, this has been tried before and failed.
But the division is apparent, all this is in the plan of God and paving the way for the coming of the last times.
"..houses will be divided.." What side of the fence will we be found when the witnesses come?
Will we have the protection of God or are we going to accept the mark and be judged accordingly?
At the final battle, are we going to be PLACED on the side of Christ or the antichrist?
By saying that God (the Father) became flesh and died, is taking away from Christ what is Christs,
thus becoming anti-Christ!

.nutters- How are you going to argue your point then? Are you going to side with the antichrist?

The true worshipers of God, Christ and the True Spirit should rejoice that all this is taking place!
Read where Maxim writes in 10:30;12 on.

As the chosen of God, we are given this, but must accept and adhere to all of His will!

**Daniel M B** · 03-24-2010, 12:50 PM

Oh goody!
They miss me over there and given me my own thread!
If they hate us so much why do they want us to come back?
".nutters" just about says it!
Hypocrites! Why use "molokan" (.net)?
Why not use "anti-molokan" or "free for all" etc.?
Some thing better to discribe who they really are!

***RedOctober*** · (This post was last modified: 03-24-2010 01:36 PM by RedOctober.)

Yeah, they had one for me not too long ago.

You stopped responding....so this is there attempt to get you to respond. Soon as you do they will mince your words and pervert what you intended to say. They love to play the good cop/bad cop routine as well.....give a false sense of hope that they actually do want just a "good discussion". Of course....they define "good discussion" as getting you to yield and convert to their beliefs.

I wouldn't say they "hate us" per se, although by their words it would appear that way. But rather, they are deluded into thinking they are "helping" us. These confrontational evangelist usually just throw everything at you to see what sticks (gets you angry). Once they find that, they realize there is a raw nerve and they continue to work on it with a plethora of psychological traps. Once they get a person emotionally unstable, they go in for the kill....and the person capitulates. Then voila! They have a new convert and any sin or wrong doing they did in the process is "washed away" since they made you a convert.

Problem is of course, its conversion through coercion, that's not a real change. Of course in their new religion they feel a euphoria of sorts...much like being in a new job after leaving an old one you hated...lets continue using that analogy. And of course a person is going to think there new place of employment is so much better...well, in the short term it will. Any bad working relationships will be gone. Plus there will seem to be many more opportunities and people listening to your ideas. Of course, this isn't about the short term....its about the long term, or as Apostle Paul stated, "finishing the race". Sooner or later a persons own flaws will catch up to them in there new job...and the problems begin anew. And of course, every company (and religion) paints themselves as a great place to be...but in time, a person eventually realizes that isn't quite true. And eventually a long time later, they are unhappy again. Thus its the same with any other faith. Just as in any job, in faith, you have to be content with yourself. A person has to realize any bad relationships or baggage may be emanating from oneself and thus, they have to work on themselves to achieve real change. When life's trials come, then proof will be in the pudding.

Why they use the word "Molokan"....thats easy. One, they use it for deception to lure anyone unsuspecting. Two, they are attempting revisionist history....revise the Molokan beliefs and history to favor Protestantism....just in case they ever are successful in taking control of the churches.

**Daniel M B** · 03-24-2010, 02:30 PM

Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

**wall** · 03-24-2010, 03:36 PM

(03-24-2010 02:30 PM)Daniel M B Wrote: Yes I can relate to that "changing jobs" theory.
And my thought after awhile was "why did I leave that job in the first place? Was the change or a couple of bucks extra worth it?"
I'm hoping that the elders that are in charge a the moment can stay strong and not bow to this teaching.
The sad part is, I think it was mentioned in another post, that some of those elders have the BSF teaching
under their belts and are using it to run/teach the churches!
I can see a lot of smaller groups forming (true believers) as it heads in that direction.

Dan, can you share where that comment about BSF is? Maybe I missed something, but if you're referencing what I'm thinking seems you've added quite a bit of words.